Friday, April 1, 2022

F Block: "Speaking of Courage" and "Notes"

Please choose one of the prompts given in class today to respond to in a post of at least 6-8 sentences. After you have published your post, read and reply to at least two posts written by your classmates.

33 comments:

  1. Prompt 4: I think the story is called “Speaking of Courage“ because it discusses how Norman Bowker still feels inadequate even after everything he accomplished. I think the point of the story is to show that no matter how many courageous acts you preform, you will only remember the time where you lacked courage. I think Norman feels like he failed his father when he didn't win the silver star. He relies on his fathers approval, and he feels that he has let his father down. I think that even if Norman was awarded the silver star his life wouldn't have changed much, he would still end up focusing on something he wasn't able to achieve. I think the death of Kiowa had a larger effect on Norman because the medals represent his feeling of failure. He is upset about the medal, but he is more hurt by the fact that he couldn't save his friend. I think Norman doesn't try to fit in because he feels so isolated. He doesn't think anyone would understand what he has gone through.

    - Ava Stinson

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    1. I agree with everything you wrote in your response Ava. As we've discussed from previous chapters, war changes a person. The horrors that are witnessed and the psychological damage it imposes is something that the average hometown person wouldn't understand. They can be there for Norman however, it wouldn't be the same as talking to someone who understands. I think Norman still feels guilty that he couldn't save his friend and tries to compensate it with medals to feel like he's done something and helped but like you said, hes focused on the one time he failed.
      -Isabella Toledo

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    2. I think you bring up a great point that we critic ourselves more over our failures rather than thinking about the positive or courageous acts we performed.

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    3. Ava, I agree with you how in that one time where you lacked courage you remember that before all the courageous things you have done. It shows how important Norman cares for others. He cannot be satisfied with himself which is disappointing because of all the other great things he has done.

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    4. sorry that post wasn't mine mine didnt post:( -sydnie

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    5. If Norman had won the silver star, he would have saved Kiowa. He still probably would have suffered from PTSD, but I think saving Kiowa would have mattered to him.

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  2. 4) It is not that Norman Bowker feels inadequate with 7 medals, its that he didn’t earn the silver star because he didn’t have the courage to save his friend. He says that the other medals were not anything special, “they were for common valor” (135)but they would still impress people like his father and the people in his town just the same. The reason he feels bad about not earning that eighth medal has nothing to do with the prestige that would have come with it but because he let his friend die. If he did earn the Silver Star for saving Kiowa, he wouldn’t feel pride for earning a prestigious medal he would be happy that he saved his close friend. The other medals may have been impressive for his father and the people in his town because they don’t really understand what they really meant; any medal must be good. What the story of how he almost earned the silver star means to Bowker is just a resident of how he lacked the courage to save his friend. It isn’t not receiving the medal that matters to him, what matters is that he wasn’t courageous enough to save Kiowa.
    — Jack Oppen

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    1. I definitely think that losing his friend took a larger tole on Norman, especially since that moment was the reason he didn't earn the silver star. I think because this moment was so influential, it is something that stuck with him and had a very large impact on him when he got back home.
      - Ava Stinson

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    2. Spot on, Jack. No one else knows that the only medal that would have mattered was the one he didn't earn...the one that symbolized his failure that night.

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  3. I believe that at times, we struggle with never ending cycles of dissatisfaction. We say that we’ll be happy or we’ll be content once we reach a certain goal or achievement but when the time comes, we still aren’t satisfied-Norman Bowker is a perfect example of this. In reality, one more medal wouldn’t have made Norman's life any different. His close friend still would have died, and he still would have to carry the emotional trauma after the war ended. Norman has all of these stories to tell from the war and he has no one he can confide in. He doesn’t want to be a bother and he doesn’t think anyone would want to hear what he has to say. He needs to tell someone about the horrors of war and the things he’s experienced, but he can’t bring himself to. Because of this, he feels like an outsider and not like those from his hometown.
    -Isabella Toledo

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    1. He certainly doesn't believe anyone in his hometown will understand what he's been through. It does appear that he might have had the chance to save Kiowa, or at least in the way he remembers it.

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    2. Being uprooted and dragged into an awful war certainly changed Norman. Now he is planted back into his town but he is so different that he can’t relate to anybody and doesn’t want to burden them with his horror stories. That is a great observation

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    3. I agree, I think we all have this idea that if we are able to accomplish something big we will feel satisfied. I think people often find themselves feeling inadequate because we are constantly criticizing our own abilities and accomplishments. I also agree that he thinks nobody from his small hometown will understand what he has gone through, leaving him feeling very alone and isolated.
      - Ava Stinson

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    4. I agree Isabella I think it's apparent how isolated Norman feels. I was sad to read in the chapter Notes that he ended up committing suicide. Going through something as dramatic as war can have life long effects on the soldiers. I'm sure even if this story isn't true, there are many almost identical stories that are.
      -sydnie

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    5. Isabella, I agree with you that dissatisfaction can follow someone around even with so many other accomplishments. Norman Bowker displayed his courage in times of difficulty and that is shown throughout the chapter.

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    6. Norman's story really represents so many thousands of young men who came back from Vietnam and felt lost and isolated, unable to return to work or their lives before the war.

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  4. In the chapter “Speaking of courage” after the war, Norman feels distant and different than he did before. He talks about how before the war he would drive around the lake with his friends and his old girlfriend, who he goes into detail about how she is married and has changed her name. To me, it feels like Norman feels stuck in time when everyone else around him has moved on. I can imagine this feeling would also cause him to feel alone and isolated from the place that once was his normal. I also feel that Norman is more focused on the metal he could have gotten rather than helping Kiowa. Although Norman can imagine his father consoling him after hearing the story about Kiowa's death, he still is more focused on satisfying his fathers wish for him to earn medals. O'Brian may have chosen to tell this in third person to further highlight the distance of Norman from the death of Kiowa. It feels less personal and more like a fictional story rather than a personal account.
    -sydnie ring

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    1. I agree I think he is trapped feeling isolated as no one can relate to what he has been through at war, and as he cannot connect with the people in the time he has been overseas. It's very interesting that the third person writing may have been used to establish distance.

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  5. I chose the the forth prompt to discuss. Norman Bowker has always wanted to impress his father and bring him a medal home from Vietnam. Norman understands that his fathers pride comes from his awards and accomplishments. However, when his chance to win the silver star diminishes, Norman cannot get past it. While I don't think it would change Norman's life if he won the award, it was more because he lost it because of Kiowa. Norman is unable to relate to anyone at home because nobody can understand the loss of someone at war except for those who were there and fought alongside one another. Norman should be proud of his accomplishments in the army but since he lost one of the most important soliders and friends due to his own actions, he cannot get past that.

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    1. The idea that the war isolates him from his community is a great one

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    2. Why was Kiowa's death due to his own actions? Why does he feel responsible? That moment is at the heart of his battle.

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  6. Response to Question 4:

    The chapter titled “Speaking of Courage” displays a moral debate about what is courage. I believe that O’Brien shows the platoon members as having a conscious ethical debate revolved around each of their actions. Although they are out at was in the fields of Vietnam, they critic themselves very hard. In Norman Bowker’s case, he was forced to leave his friend Kiowa behind in the fields, also risking his title for valor.

    Norman Bowker felt inadequate with seven medals as he could have had the chance to receive eight, but did not receive the Silver Star. He ponders the conversations he could have shared with his father who passed away while he was overseas. As he feels everyone in his life has left him, his old friends, high school girlfriend, and now his father, he longs to keep connection and hold onto one of those relationships. I don’t believe it would have changed Norman’s life if he had won the Silver Star, however I believe that he holds himself accountable to do so with an immense amount of pressure. As he was in contention for one, he may be angered by the fact that he wasn’t able to fulfill a goal. He wants to explain himself and imagines venting to his father about the missed opportunity.

    I think the death of Kiowa was more difficult for Bowker to process since he feels that he has failed his friend, his platoon, and his father’s desires or approval. He wishes he could have saved his friend and holds himself accountable for his death. As he feels alone and no longer has many relationships to his hometown, he cannot relate to anyone. He feels no one can understand what he has gone through without having gone through war themselves.

    -Ava Cote

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    1. I agree, that the chapter "Speaking of Courage" displayed a moral debate about what is courage. Norman Bowker struggles with immense guilt over Kiowa's death and it follows him home to Iowa. I agree that the death of Kiowa was more difficult for Bowker to process because he felt he failed his friend. When in reality, he is not responsible for Kiowa's death and isn't a failed friend or hero.

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  7. Prompt 1:
    The chapter, “Speaking of Courage '' exemplifies not only the relationships that are made and lost during war, but also the immense weight that war can place on a human and the importance to find a way to cope and release some of that pressure. Though we see Bowker and his inability to successfully cope with the death of his friend and platoon-mate Kiowa, we also see him struggling to cope with post war life. His ex-girlfriend had gotten married by the time he returned and he felt that he was not living up to his hometown's expectations in almost a material way. He sees his failure to save Kiowa's life as not only that but also his failed chance to get a silver medal. It would be thought that the meaning of a medal would pale in comparison to a life but with nobody to talk to and debrief in his hometown, he is obviously constantly re-evaluating his situation and thinking about his life could be different if he had won a medal. I believe that O’Brien writes this in third person for the sole purpose of paying respect to Bowker. As he talked about in “Notes” he had already misrepresented Bowkers story once and he may feel that this would better represent the way that Bowker felt about his actions.

    -Peter Gourdeau

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  8. Question 3:
    The Chapter “Notes” expands a lot on the chapter “Speaking of Courage” because it provides the whole and real story, with a real person. In my opinion, using the man’s real name, and all the real events from the story give the story more meaning, and hit me harder. In the beginning of the chapter, it explained how Normal Bowker couldn’t find meaning in his life after the war. Since we got the background information about the war in the previous chapter, it makes sense. During the war Bowker was a hero, and even though he might not believe it, he was. So when things went back to normal, it makes sense that he felt empty. I got really interested when O'Brien started talking about how the previous story he wrote about this incident was falsified. I saw it from all perspectives and I can see why he might have done that in the past, but I’m glad he eventually wrote the full, true story. Switching gears a little bit, the last paragraphs shows O'Brien difficulty in finding the whole truth about the Vietnam war. The first thing he struggles to find is the truth about death. He wanted to avoid thinking about Kiowa during the war, and the suicide of Bowker. But writing this story helped O’Brien come to terms about the war and made him realize how Bowker acted during the war. It made him realize that Bowker did nothing wrong, and was not, and never will be responsible for what happened to Kiowa.

    — Eli Labell

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    1. I definately agree that when I learned that he went so deep as to use his real name, I felt much more touched by the story than before. I feel that this chapter was really unique, and the details that it added to the previous chapter was really helpful for the reader to deeper understand.

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    2. Very nice post, Eli. It enhances the chapter that O'Brien decided to add "Notes" to provide more truth and context, and to acknowledge that Bowker did not suffer
      "any failure of nerve" that led to Kiowa's death. Do you think O'Brien holds anyone accountable for Kiowa's death?

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    3. I agree in the last paragraph in the chapter "Notes", O'Brien struggles to find the truth about death. Your perspective on death would definitely change after surviving a war because those traumatic events will stay with you for the rest of your life. Writing helped O'Brien come to terms with Kiowa's death and like you said, helped him to realize that Bowker did nothing wrong. In fact he was not a failed hero.

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  9. The chapter "Speaking of Courage" is one that dives into the life of Vietnam veteran Norman Bowker after the war. I feel that this vignette shows the constant struggle that veterans experience, even years after the war has ended. I think that the silver star is not the true reason why Norman is caught up, he has earned multiple medals and deep down knows that they are not what makes him accomplished. However, the absense of the silver star in his possession is a constant reminder of the fact that he could not save his friends life, which is something that is extremely painful for Norman. It seems like he feels like he could have saved him, and the guilt of not being able to still haunts him. I feel that even after the war when Norman returns to the United States and back to "normal" life, he knows that nobody is going to understand what he has gone through, what he has seen, and what he has had to do, so he simply just doesn't try.
    - Maddie Butler

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  10. Very well said. He drives around the lake hoping to find something he can grab on to, someone who might understand. The man who takes his order at the mama burgers restaurant even tries to ask him to talk (odd because he's a detached stranger on the speaker phone taking orders) but Norman doesn't see anyone in his town that would be able to understand what he has been through.

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  11. The chapter “Notes” expands the way we read “Speaking of Courage” by explaining how difficult it was for soldiers to cope with the result of the war when they are back home. After finding out why “Notes” was written, it gives “Speaking of Courage” more depth and importance. It was written after Norman Bowker kills himself due to the immense guilt he feels over Kiowa’s death. In “Speaking of Courage”, Tim O’Brien explains how Norman Bowker feels after the war regarding Kiowa’s death. His strong emotions follow him back home to Iowa. About eight months later he hangs himself. In a letter, Bowker confesses that he doesn’t know how to move on and feels as though he died in Vietnam. He is constantly haunted by the night that Kiowa died. In the last paragraph of “Notes”, O’Brien makes it clear that Bowker is not responsible for Kiowa’s death and isn’t a failed hero. O’Brien demonstrates the struggle to find the “truth” about the Vietnam War in his writings which help him come to terms with the death of Kiowa.

    - Nola Ciavola

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F Block: "Speaking of Courage" and "Notes"

Please choose one of the prompts given in class today to respond to in a post of at least 6-8 sentences. After you have published your post...